Bad Ideas...

[liadethornegge]

So, I pulled out one of the bags that has been sitting on my spare bed since forever and looked inside it to find the culottes that I bought second-hand and butchered for the wool. Now this wool is lovely, it is charcoal grey, one would say almost black, it is thin, it is lovely it is fabulous. It might be enough for a bodice, with shoulder treatments, but not sleeves. It is definately not enough for a skirt.

Ponderng my wool I got to thinking about Bess' fabulous new Kentwell outfit, and the portraits she used for inspiration. Now I can so see this turning into a dress of that kind. Only I still don't have enough for a skirt. So my mind starts to tell me, well, skirt-schmirt, make a doublet! Bad ideas attack me like this, I don't know what to do.... I  could do pinks, put a poly behind it, looks like satin nobody would know. I could make it faboo! But seriously, I do not need another project. Besides, if I make a doublet,  I've still got nothing to wear underneath it! I do have the grey wool which was bought, meant for a kirtle, and still meant for a kirtle..

---

... a bit later...
I am probably insane. Statistically it wouldn't be a bad statement. Considering I could not, simply could not, let it be, instead I went ahead and pulled out my bodice pattern, the same as the tudor court gown, and with a couple of adjustments, moving the side seam so that more is in the back, and changing the shoulder strap angle I drew the pattern onto my wool with my chalk. Check it out, front and back. I mean, it just beckons to be cut out now. But it's low-cut, I can't make a low-cut jacket. I have two more of the same size pieces as the ones in the pictures too, so I could make sleeves, as well as use the surrounding bits for wings, rolls and doo-dads.

It's a sickness I tell you, starting dead-end projects. I can't concievably make a dress out of this! I just really, really wanted to try out the curved shoulder-strap bit that myladyswardrobe always does...

But I mean, I can't use it for anything even if I cut it out. I'd be wasting good wool!

Aah! Somebody stop me!

Comments

[myladyswardrobe.livejournal.com]

**disclaimer** I am in no way responsible for this mad plan of yours just cos I have used the curved shoulder strap in the past! **disclaimer**

;-)

Right, now thats out of the way, why not have the bodice made anyway so you can play with the curved shoulder and make a skirt from a different coloured wool. It was done at the time.

Oops - sorry, I should be "stopping you" from making it in the first place!!

Bess.

[liadethornegge.livejournal.com]

AAh! you are evil leading me into temptation like that! I even brushed off my chalk marks and folded up my fabric. How am I going to be able to resist it now?

So, then, if they did make it out of two colours of wool, would they make it out of two different thicknesses? My charcoal wool that I have enough for a bodice and sleeves is really very thin. I don't have any more of this kind of wool. And I expect it to be way too expensive to buy in any lengths.

When you make your bodices with this curved shoulder, you still make the interlining up, fold the seam allowance of your wool down over it and add the lining on the inside, all cut this way in a curvy line and then when you stitch it up it'll all pull the right way? Looking at my pieces it seemed like the armscye was way large though. And the corner you have to turn there at the shoulder strap seems very very fiddly to make it look good.

Also, make a skirt of different would - would I still attach it to the bottom of the bodice? I've never really seen a successful two piece outfit of this kind - were they ever separated?

Lord... here I go again asking you a million and one questions!

[peronel.livejournal.com]

I'd suggest pleating the skirt onto a waistband and then sew the waistband inside the bodice. That's what I've done on the yet to be photographed and put online brown gown. This has the advantage of sewing bodice to skirt directly in that you get no gaping between the two but you can, if you want, remove the skirt and use it with something else. Plus I've found with thin wool sewing the skirt directly to the bodice can cause the weight of the skirt to distort the bodice, so you get a line of marks where the pleats are sewn. Not good. This method avoids that.

[liadethornegge.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes, that there is a definate idea.

Pictures, yes, take lots of pictures and put them online for all the rest of us to see! More pictures to the people!

[myladyswardrobe.livejournal.com]

Oops - sorry!!!

No reason why it would be the same thickness if two different colours. Its not as if one thickness/weight would be dyed in different colours. Stands to reason!

Make the bodice in the charcoal, use a different colour and weight for the skirt and make two pairs of sleeves - one pair in the charcoal and one pair as per the skirt!

It is fiddly to get the corner to look good, but you could make your own "curve" just there. Just a small one to help get the fabric to fold more neatly. The armscye may be a bit deep - probably best to compare with my photos of my latest bodice pattern on my website (the 1569 gown). I do cut the interlining to the same pattern as the wool and its lining. I DO NOT cut the stiffening into the curved strap. I also ensure that the bodice is fitted to it utmost and THEN tighten and tighten the straps. I did this with my 1569 gown and the first day or so was not good - it was uncomfortable, but now it is very confy and doesn't attempt to drop of the shoulders. And thats impressive with the shoulder rolls as well!

I would say that the skirt if a different colour would be separate but you could have a lacing strip inside the waist of the bodice and corresponding eyelets in the waist band of the skirt and lace together. If the men can do it then I see no reason why the women couldn't. Alternatively, make the skirt as separate and then stitch inside the bodice, changing it if you want a different skirt.

And I don't mind you asking questions! Feel free to do so!

Bess.

More questions for the wicked...

[liadethornegge.livejournal.com]

Ah yes I see the curve was not so steep as I drew it on - I will keep this in mind when I do this outfit (at some point if not right now).

Hmm, you wear a corset underneath, and you also stiffen the bodice? What do you use to stiffen it, and why is this needed? I only did an interlining in sturdy fabric on my blue court gown...

You say get it fitting well first, and only then pull the shoulderstraps tight in their final position: should it be really, really tight? Yours have stretched with wear?

How did you attach the sleeves? Eyelets at the top and lacing strip in bodice?

How do you normally do your skirts? Rectangular panel or gored?

I am also sort of wondering how to attack shoulder treatment AND sleeves in a neat way on my ropa, but I can ask helwig to demonstrate her garments for that :)

(Reposted for typo in lj tag)

Re: More questions for the wicked...

[myladyswardrobe.livejournal.com]

With regards to stiffening and what is worn beneath - is this a working/middling class outfit? If so then the bodice itself is stiffened and does not require a corset. If its a higher class outfit then I'd go for a higher class fabric for the skirt. There are 1580s outfits of a doublet in one colour and the skirt in another (thats a plan for me!!!) and different fabrics altogether. You could simply make a kirtle - low necked bodice with little or no shoulder treatment with a round gown skirt attached to it. Doublet of the fine wool over the top. The kirtle bodice is then boned and stiffened and acts as a corset - the doublet simply needs interlining and perhaps the odd bone in strategic places such as fastening points.

Also, the amount of boning/stiffening really depends on the person - so if what you've done in the past works for you then go with that. I personally like to have a corset beneath my gown AND lightly bone the bodice. It meant that for one or two days I have been able to wear my new 1569 gown sans corset - though can't do that now as it has stretched a bit.

A bodice WILL stretch - as will the straps. I like to wear the bodice (if I have time! Ha! Whats that???) for a while once the straps have been tightened, get the slack in and then tighten again.

I am ashamed to say that MY sleeves are safety pinned in cos I haven't actually completed the shoulder rolls so haven't go the lacing strip in. But again, it really depends on what the shoulder treatment is and whether you want to change the sleeves or not.

Skirts - the back is rectangular and the fronts are gored but I have to fiddle with the front gores cos my pattern doesn't want to open nicely and the front!

How about turned tabs - eg strip of fabric with braid or whatever on it, cut to small lengths and folded over, stitched into shoulder. Perhaps a nice double layer? Easy to hide a lacing strip under that. See JA for it.

Hoppe that helps.

Bess.

Re: More questions for the wicked...

[liadethornegge.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Bess, that does help. I haven't done enough of these outfits to know what works best for me, or what I like best, which is why I ask all these questions :)

About how much fabric does your skirts use up then? I tried looking for my farthingale pattern this morning to see how much fabric that used, but I can't find it anywhere - bother...

I'm not sure if I want to make a middle or high class outfit out of this charcoal wool really. But I know I didn't want to make a doublet. Well, actually I could do a doublet. Make this the fashion fabric on the experimental doublet that I've put on hiatus.

About shoulder treatments, it's the bit about 'stitched into shoulder' that puzzles me. Should I finish the little tabs before I do that, or what? I suppose that might depend on the fabric I use too.